308: Finding and Maintaining Friendships as a Content Creator with Danielle Bayard Jackson

[00:00:00] Bree: If you've ever felt at any point in life, whether it's right now or recently, or whenever that man, I would really love to make more friends or just that feeling of loneliness that has definitely happened to me throughout my life. And I feel like I'm currently in a season where I'm like, Oh, I'm not. I have lots of friends, but I don't necessarily have a lot of friends that live close to me personally.

In any event, if you are somebody that, I think all of us at this point, have struggled with friendships, are struggling with friendships, feel like you could go deeper in friendships, having a conflict with a friend, whatever it may be, or even just navigating friendships in this digital space, then this is the episode for you.

In this episode, I am so honored that I got to chat with Danielle Bayard Jackson. She is a friendship educator and she is here to help women develop personal and professional connections and really deepen friendships. She's also the author of Fighting for Our Friendships. And we just had the most amazing conversation about Making friends, maintaining friendships, what it looks like, like, in a tangible, like, give me steps one, two, three of how to go and make a new friend, but then also, like, felt a little, like, I don't know, calling me out or therapist y of just, like, you know, what are you actually needing from a friendship and especially when we are perhaps looking for other friends that do something similar to what we do, kind of getting to those root causes or just, like, Asking yourself the hard question of why we're searching for what we're searching for and how we approach those type of friendships and I Just love this conversation.

I'm headed to go buy her book right now We'll leave links in our show notes for all the places you can go find and follow her and get her book and anything else Um, she has tons of resources, so we'll link all that for you guys, but for now, let's dive into it and enjoy this episode.

Welcome to the Thrive Podcast. If you're a blogger, influencer, you found this show for you. I'm Brie Pair, your host and blogging coach here to help you take your brand to the next level. At Thrive, our mission is to equip bloggers and influencers with practical tactics and strategies that can transform your brand to give you the lifestyle you want.

We offer tutorials, workshops, and a supportive community to accompany you on your journey. I created the thrive podcast to give you simple, actionable steps that you can use to drive real results in your business. I also wanted to give you a peek behind the curtain of others in the industry that you look up to.

Our guests share strategies they've used to grow revenue streams that are working for them and insider info you won't find anywhere else. Now let's get ready to thrive. Hi Danielle. How are you? Welcome. I'm okay. How are you? I'm good. You look beautiful over there. You got gorgeous lighting and everything.

You are in sunny Florida. Hopefully it's sunny right now.

[00:03:17] Danielle: It is sunny and, and I, I'm loving the weather and I'm just so excited to, to be here and talking all things friendship with you because it's so important.

[00:03:26] Bree: It is so important and I wish it wasn't this challenging, honestly. And so I'd love to just like, let's dive in, like, Well, I have a couple of things.

I'm curious with you being a friendship coach, and you probably get this question a lot, like, how, how are friendships for you? Like being like, Oh, I'm a friendship coach. Like, do you feel this immense? I feel like I would feel immense pressure to be like, I have to be the perfect friend.

[00:03:52] Danielle: You know, I did at first, but, um, I normally sometimes.

I used to get kind of like, uh, nervous when people would ask about myself because normally I like to throw in a blazer and share the research. That's my safe place. Okay. Um, but I've gotten more comfortable like, you know, because you know, to humanize myself and to show that we're all figuring this out.

Right. My friendships are really good. They feel very healthy. They feel very life giving. Um, and I would say that one way that just. Doing this job has helped me as it's hard to not study this, this research on women's cooperation, communication, conflict, and not have it impact your very real life. So it's showing me ways that I can be braver.

It's showing me ways that I can develop relational resilience. So, uh, I'm happy to be learning things to share with other women, but selfishly, I'm also happy to be learning ways to enhance the satisfaction I experienced in my own personal platonic relationships too. So it's going well because of that.

[00:04:48] Bree: Oh, I love it. I feel like we, you know, there's so much out there about like, um, like your relationship with your partner or your spouse or whomever. And it's like all these different studies and things. And so when I found you and I'm like, no, we really do have to apply so many things to friendships as well.

And to keep those healthy, what kind of made you Be like, yeah, this is something I want to do.

[00:05:15] Danielle: Yeah. So I always joke that it certainly wasn't on my vision board when I was 10. Like I'm going to be a French, you know, but I was actually a high school English teacher teaching 12th graders for six years. Um, and it's the number one thing students wanted to talk about between classes and after school.

And then I worked my way up to the academic department chair. So I'm leading meetings and one of the biggest biggest counties in the country and a lot of our meetings focused on issues of friendship because we were realizing that if they felt disconnected, if they felt the lack of belonging, this was impacting the way we could even give good instruction, right?

Because if you feel like you don't have a group, you're not showing up to school or you kind of fell out with a girl in the back of the room. You don't want to raise your hand, participate. You don't want to stand up and give a, you know, a presentation to feel very vulnerable. So we saw how it was impacting everything else, these issues of connection and belonging.

And so when I eventually left the classroom, I got into public relations. So I was working with these high achieving, charismatic women. And it wasn't long before I realized that they too, secretly, privately behind the scenes, had issues with friendship as well. But at that level, you're not. talking so openly about it because it detracts from the image of self sufficiency that you're projecting in your business.

So they're silently struggling with issues of, I don't have deep friendships. I have a lot of connections, but, but they're not deep. I don't feel close to them. They don't know me. Right. Um, and so for the past six years, I've dedicated my career to studying what the latest research has to say about issues of women's cooperation, communication and conflict.

And so far it's been a fun ride.

[00:06:53] Bree: Oh my gosh. I have so many questions. So for our audience, you know, a lot of them, I mean, they're content creators, so they are, have this public facing forward. And I feel like when you're in that space, like, like you said, you want to put on this face, this persona that like, Things are great, you know, and, and we've gotten to, I, I love when people are vulnerable and do share and maybe sometimes it's just in like an Instagram story, but some things that's just like, oh yeah, and usually when they do, they're like a bunch of people connect with that.

Like, oh yeah, I'm struggling with that too. Friendship is something I don't see people. Talk about a lot, but I know just from like one on one conversations that I have with people that like, yeah, it is something that is challenging, um, and so whenever it comes to making friends when you are somebody that has, let's say a larger following or a following at all.

And you're like, Oh, I really want to be friends with this person. I want to make other friends that are in my niche and understand what I do. Sometimes it can be hard to kind of like, I feel like get that started or even like break through like initial barriers that people put up of like, Oh, what do you want from me?

Type of thing. What, what do you like suggest with something like that? Okay. I

[00:08:21] Danielle: love this question so much. Um, I would start that person with an exercise. Okay. And that exercise is to complete the statement. I am. Blank and to complete that like maybe four or five times while inserting a word that speaks to some aspect of your intersectional identity So for me, for example, it might be I am black.

I am a woman. I am a creative I am an educator right these feel like essential parts of who I am. The next step is to ask yourself Are you in communities? For each one of those things, because so often we have one aspect of our identity that takes up all the space. So we're looking for friendships in that area.

We're looking for a partner in that area we're looking for, and there's nothing wrong with that. Right. Um, you know, the research says that people who have relational diversity are happier people. So you need your happy hour friend, your content creator, friends, your mom, friends, your friends from college.

Yeah. You need all that because the research shows that people who have those layers have a greater wellbeing than the person who just has. content creator friends. So the person who's saying, man, I, I want to be connected to people. My first push would be, can you look outside of that aspect of your identity?

Cause you have other things going on for yourself. There are other things that make you, you, and maybe you need to spend some time with that. Okay. So look outside of content creator land, just because I know that sometimes when we mix business with friendship, you're always going to come against that, that paranoia that we often feel we're on guard because people can be manipulative, right?

They're leading with friendship, but in reality they have an ulterior motive. So we're trained to be on guard. What is this really about? What do you really want? Are you trying to use me for content? Do you just want tips? Right. And so in order to avoid some of that is, What are other places you can explore to build friendships that are not related?

Now, I also understand the need to have friends who get what you do. Research also finds that people who are entrepreneurs or who have high managerial positions, they often feel a unique sense of loneliness because others don't understand what they do. And so you feel like, gosh, nobody gets me. So of course there's something very satisfying around having friends where there's Almost like the shorthand, you know what I'm going through.

I don't have to explain my day or my troubles. They get the lifestyle So that's important too, right? But I would suggest that if you're going in that space What are ways that you can connect with them and not necessarily on a content creator level? So maybe you go to them because you think that they would connect with you But how do you not make it the leading thing?

Maybe it's I'm reaching out because I saw on your last post you live in so and so and I live there too But I'm trying to figure out you know, Where'd it go? I'm trying to figure out what the, you know, so I'm not leaning into that aspect of your identity, even though I know we share that interest, but I'm gonna connect with you with something else, knowing that when we connect that that's probably going to be a topic of conversation, but you have to anticipate almost that there might be people who are kind of like, I don't know, what's this really about because unfortunately they probably have been approached by people who, who don't want friendship.

They want more of a business transaction.

[00:11:26] Bree: Yes, or the other thing I've seen is like, oh, you've been able to maybe connect with somebody who does something similar that you do. But like you were alluding to of like, even later down the road, there can be different things because it's almost to me It's like yes, they're friends and I think there are like I definitely have close friends that have come out of like business Like meeting through business, right?

But there's others that it can be that more like um, competition will come up, or you know, disagreement and how something in the industry is going, and there can be a little bit of those conflicts, um, or even just feeling threatened by their peers success.

[00:12:08] Danielle: Oh totally. I definitely see some of that too.

And you know, two suggestions I have for that too are, If we're just like being totally honest and this doesn't apply to everyone, but I want you know, whoever's listening to assess this is Do you purely want friendship? Like if you couldn't post about hanging out with this person if you couldn't be DMing them Like if you weren't allowed to post being with this other person Would you want to because I do see some people were like, yeah, I want friends, but If I could look inside their brain and see what image they're conjuring up when they say, I want more friends.

Are you thinking through people you can connect with and you enjoy each other, but you're also kind of thinking about like, how would be cool to like have those pictures and you could do fun things and shoot content together. That, in my opinion, that dips into something else. If you couldn't post about being with this person, would you want to be with this person?

And if we look at the, inverse of that? If we look at the opposite of that, um, do you find that that is working as a filter for the people you connect with? Like subconsciously, do you find yourself kind of envisioning what it would look like to be friends together? Are you overlooking people who are maybe, they have like a small amount of followers and they're not even close to doing the content creator thing, but they're hilarious?

They're supportive. They kind of challenge you. You find yourself like intellectually stimulated, right? And they are not in your world at all. So really think through how does what you do serve as a subtle, stealthy filter for people who you connect with? And is it, is it, Expanding your world of connections, or do you find it limiting your world of connections, the criteria that you're subconsciously using to determine friends?

And the last thing I'll say is, I need you to also pay attention to where you're sourcing friends. I know you might work and live Online, but that should not be the only option you've got for finding friends. Yeah to get out in the world I'm sorry, and there's research that finds that people who use social media to supplement their friendships That's how we use it.

It should not replace them So what else am I doing to invite people in my life because that probably does make it You're mulling over every little word for the DM, whereas I can meet you in person and instantly I could tell that you're warm because your body language and the conversation is flowing and we're not doing that dance of like, okay, at what point do I move this from DM to in real life?

So I would just encourage you to be more expansive in how you're even sourcing friendships.

[00:14:39] Bree: Mm. You are pushing even I'm like, Ooh, you've touched on some like spots there just like pushing me into like, that's like a growth area like I need that is outside my comfort zone. That is pushing me there. And I know everybody listening to is like, Ooh, that may be a little uncomfortable.

I don't know if I love that. But let's keep listening. Please keep listening because there's so many things to where I think you know, okay, Even like, okay, going beyond that. And I'm just using this as like, uh, I don't know, a therapy session with you. I'm like, let's, let's just dive in and tell me all the things.

How do I make more friends? Danielle, um, is so for me, for example, I'm in my thirties. I have found that I, I have an 18 month old and that has made things a little bit easier. Like connecting with other moms that have a daughter or son that is like my kid's age. I'm like, Ooh, there's that immediate like connection there of like, we kind of know what each other's going through.

That has been great. But outside of, okay, mom friends. I have not lived in Minnesota for too, too long. I moved here right before COVID and so it feels like, you know, three years were kind of like disappeared and then I had a kid. So it was like the last five years have felt like a blur. And so I have found myself in a place where Almost, probably 90 percent of my friends are long distance.

They live in all around the world and those are like my close friends. But that gets really lonely and that gets really isolating, especially as you have a new kid and you're going through different things or just like, Oh my God, I would just love to meet up with somebody for coffee or a glass of wine.

And I don't really have that option right now. For me, it feels like, where do I go? What do I kind of look at to try to make friends without feeling like I'm going to maybe like a networking event? But then also, and it could just be psychological and like a barrier that I've put up, but feeling like, okay, like, most people are kind of like established in their own friends group, and you're kind of like an outsider trying to get in.

Mm hmm. What do you do?

[00:16:59] Danielle: Oh my goodness, you're saying so many so many things so many good things so many good things I'm gonna i'm gonna start with the last thing you said I wish I had a dollar for every time somebody said that to me because we'd be having this interview from my Bungalow and Bora Bora.

Okay. Um,

[00:17:15] Bree: but Everybody send her a

[00:17:17] Danielle: dollar if you've said this. Yes. Yes. Um, but I hear you. I hear you. That is such a prevalent sneaky little, little mindset thing that blocks your blessings. Um, everybody already has friends. They're everybody seems established. Here's the thing. The research tells us that we tend to replace half of our friends about every seven years So there's this natural pruning that you almost have to expect to happen, which makes sense You're graduating college or you you change your career and you adopt new interests You have a child things change and you start to build You know, draw in different types of people are attracted based on just all the things but that's not just for you It's for others around you So at any given point of time the people around you are also in the market now I wish we could be walking around wearing t shirts that say like in the market because it's tempting not to see the posts With their friends and their cute little friend group that they're always posting with or the mom group down the street who like they're Always going on walks together.

So it seems like they've got their people It seems like they've got their people that is very fixed now. I'm not i'm going to be a realist I see her perpetually hanging out with the same group. So it makes sense to say Oh, she already has friends, but who am I to say? She's that's enough who am I to say?

It's even an enjoyable experience. I don't want to sound negative, but i've coached many women who look like they're very well connected and You Are, are not satisfied. Let me say it like that in that dynamic, but it's who they know that the people live close by. They've been friends for 20 years, so they keep it going.

Who am I to script for them what they want? So if I see this woman hanging out, she seems nice enough. I can say hello. I can say like, Oh my gosh, I enjoy that too. As you take the kids to the park tomorrow, she can tell me yes or no. Right. So statistically at any given point, the people around you are in the market.

They're open. Okay. So let's keep that in mind. The second thing about like in terms of how to get it done, I do hear a lot of people say what you said around, you know, Oh, I have good friends. They just don't live close by. I have good friends. They just don't live. I have a lot of thoughts on that. I think there's so much around, you know, with, with working remote and things like that.

I'm seeing people in terms of where we place roots, like the idea of having roots is, is, An idea I think that's kind of been shaken a little bit because we can work from wherever and move wherever we want and There's just so many things so I'm seeing an increase of people who say I have friends But they're not next to me that makes total sense to me and you can have those those friendships You should maintain that they offer value to your life.

But yes, you need people to do life with I'm talking in a very real daily Way they don't have to be your super close besties, but at some point we're looking for companionship So I might have friends, but I also need a companion. I need people to you know Go to target with to sit at the park. That's exactly what popular like

[00:20:10] Bree: a target trip, please.

That's

[00:20:12] Danielle: it But you need that in person experience you need Recurring positive shared experience with other human beings and that doesn't have to be a capital s search for a capital f Friend it could be this woman down the street seems really cool And I enjoy talking to her and sometimes maybe it's just we're sharing resources Especially as new moms, like, Oh girl, this is where I get, you know, jackets for her.

This is where we get learning materials. It could be that's it. And it's a pleasant exchange. That's not transactional, but that is the value we get from this, this relationship. But we need those. We need those.

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[00:22:11] Danielle: And so three quick things to get it done. If you're in the market for new friends, three quick things.

The first is I want you to go with who you already know. I know this doesn't sound very revolutionary, but for a lot of us, we say, I want to make new friends. And I think we're using that phrase synonymously with. Meet new people. And the two are not necessarily the same. Do you already know people who you enjoy each other's company, but maybe it's been a long time.

So you feel awkward about reaching out, but you already have evidence. You enjoy each other. Why not kind of stir some stuff up with people you have proven to, you know, enjoy that could be a good start. It's okay to send a text. It's like, Hey, I saw insert item here and it made me think of you. I know it's been a while since we connected, but you're on my mind.

How are you? There is no problem with that. And the research finds that we greatly underestimate how much people appreciate us reaching out. So that's the first way to get it done is start with who you already know. It's a light lift. The second is to incorporate more routine into your day, especially those work from home.

We do the same thing, but we're home alone all the time. Can you commit to every Friday? I'm going to go work out. From this cafe from nine to 10 every Friday. And that's just what I do because it lends itself to something called the mere exposure effect, which finds that we tend to prefer people just because they're familiar.

That's why it seems like it was so easy to make friends in school. I don't know that Johnny in the seventh grade was that awesome. You just saw him all the time. So now we have to manufacture those opportunities for ourselves. How can you position yourself to go for, uh, Um, an afternoon walk every Wednesday from the same place, cafe every Friday, build that routine and commit to it because that's how you're going to position yourself for those serendipitous moments.

Um, and the last thing I would say is, um, connect with a super connector. Those are people who love saying, Oh, this is my friend, Maria, Tiffany. You have to meet her like that girl, even if you're not close, but you know, a woman who's like that, why not reach out to her and say, Hey, I'm looking to get more plugged in.

And I thought of you. Because I feel like you're always out and about. Um, is there any events around town you feel like are worth checking out? She is going to put you on. She's flattered that you considered her for the job. And cherry on top, she might even invite you as a plus one. Oh yeah, I'm in this book club.

We meet every first Tuesday. You have to come, but you will not get your need met. If you're too afraid to make the need known. So we are going to make the need known to super connectors because they love, uh, connecting us and, and sharing intel from their circle.

[00:24:43] Bree: Mm. Oh my gosh. That was so good. So many amazing ideas.

And I love that you're like, here's a little low lift one, and then if you want to go further. And it has me thinking of like, oh yeah, that friend that for some reason I'm like, Oh, it's been a while since I've talked to her. We weren't that close. But I'm like, no. Like, we enjoyed hanging out. We went to the zoo once together with our kids.

Like, it's okay to reach back out.

[00:25:09] Danielle: Yeah, absolutely. And like I said, we tend to, um, underestimate that, but in the research find it's mostly because we feel guilty. We feel guilty for not having reached out, but the average person is flattered. You thought of them. They're flattered that you considered them.

They're relieved that you went first, but you don't know unless you try.

[00:25:31] Bree: So I, I would love to kind of like, okay, like, let's wrap this up in a beautiful bow with, you know, what are kind of, if we're like, you know what, I'm fine. No, I don't have a ton of friends, but, or I don't even have like, you know, friends I see regularly or anything, but, but it's fine because I'm busy.

I've got my work, I've got my kids, I've got my spouse, I've got X, Y, and Z, right? We, it's easy for us to kind of stay busy, but what are some of the. Kind of downfalls or implications that can happen when we don't prioritize friendship. Things that can happen just with our own mental health, but things that also can happen like, you know, I, I'm a very like, give me something logical of like, okay, I'm, I'm doing great in business.

Um, and things are fine, but what are some things that can happen? Like if we isolate ourselves so much as we're growing our brands, even

[00:26:29] Danielle: that's such an important question. And, you know, Transcribed by https: otter. ai I know sometimes we're busy with all the things. In fact, there's research that finds that people in their thirties and forties have the least amount of leisure time than any other generation because we've got the kids, you're doubling down at work.

You, there's so many things that are happening, but it doesn't mean it's not possible. If you are feeling like, because of your job, because of the constant, you know, creator process where your brain's always on and you feel like, where the heck am I going to get extra hours for friends? Um, I, I can relate to that and I get that.

Burnout is real and we have fewer hours available, but here's how we can make that happen for ourselves. The first is I need you to rethink what hanging out looks like because when I say hanging out with friends, if your brain is thinking about hours long lunches or late night hangouts, you're going to continue to say, Oh, well, I don't have time for friends because that's the image we've associated.

But what if I told you hanging out with friends could look like, Hey, I'm going to Target. In an hour come with me and tell me about your date last night because I got to go get some things and And that's how we're gonna clock our hours This week it can look like hey, do you want to co work and we just have some rules around okay?

I we can only talk so much because I got things to do but now I'm with you. We're sharing space We're cracking some jokes between emails, but I've got to work and that's how I'm gonna get it done. Don't get me wrong I do think we need to prioritize uninterrupted time with our friends and it's purely recreational and social.

Sure. But if it's difficult that it's come walk with me while I, you know, walk the baby around the park, come with me, come with me to my doctor's appointment. It's not sexy, but that's how we're going to get it done this week. Cause all I want to really do essentially is put eyes on you and hear what's going on and, and laugh with you in real time.

And if I only have an hour, that's what. That's what we're going to get. But instead of us feeling like, well, that's not good enough. It's just an hour. How flattering of a message to tell a friend all I have is an hour and I want to use it on you. We've got to reframe that from, well, this is not good enough.

And this is all I have. Um, but you know, again, prioritize those, you know, Three hour hangouts, if you've got them, but if all you have this week is, is an hour or 30 minutes to FaceTime while you both get ready for, for the content, whatever we're doing, all I've got is 30 minutes on Fridays. That's how you get it done.

And the last thing I'll say is if you're crunched for time, I need you to figure out a way to introduce a friendship ritual. Now I know that sounds kind of intense and no, I don't know if you want to go to someone and be like, Do you want to have a friendship ritual with me? You might scare them off, but essentially at the heart of that, what I'm saying is how can you put some aspect of your friendship on autopilot?

Cause I don't know about you, but I'm so tired of doing the dance of like, well, can you get together November 2nd? Well, I can't do a, for some of us, that's the reason we just don't because it's the mental labor and we're just like over it. So how can you take some piece of your friendship? And put it as a recurring meeting on the GCAL.

Okay. So on Fridays we FaceTime for 30 minutes at nine and that's what we do. Every Wednesday we debrief about love is blind via voice notes and that's what we do. But what's the thing that we can do where we don't have to think or schedule that I can commit to a sacred and this is my time with my girl and that's how I get it done.

And the same way I book everything else. And I'm serious about my calendar. She's, she's worth it too. So nine o'clock is for her on Fridays. You know, so those are some ways we can get it done. Rethink what it means to hang out. Invite your friends to join you on the mundane things. Stop thinking that an hour is not enough time.

It's enough. And how can I also put some aspect of our friendship on autopilot? These are things that can be helpful for the time crunched creator.