352: Simplify Your Email Marketing for Better Results with Allea Grummert

[00:00:00] Bree: What if I told you that sending four emails a week doesn't mean burnout or unsubscribes, but maybe more connection and more money. Still seems wild to me today. I am joined by email strategist Ali Grommet to break down exactly how to make email fun, manageable, and finally profitable. Today's episode is for every single one of you who has been ghosting your email list or overthinking every single send.

Okay? You know who you are. I am joined by the one and only Alley, who is an email strategist and the queen of turning email stress into strategy. You guys, she dropped so. Many good nuggets in this conversation, including how often you actually can email your list. Spoiler, it's more than you think. It's more than I thought.

Um, why your list is the most valuable platform you're probably under utilizing and how to simplify email marketing so it's not just manageable, but fun and profitable. If email has felt like a chore or something you've been putting off, then this episode is going to change the game for you. Let's dive in.

Welcome to the Thrive Podcast, where we believe creators deserve more, more money, more freedom, and even more love for what they do. I'm Bree P, your coach for content creators. And I know the struggle, the long hours, the endless ideas, the feeling that success is just out of reach. But here's the truth.

You've got what it takes in this podcast. It's your shortcut to getting there from strategies that actually work to behind the scenes insights. We are unlocking your potential one episode at a time. So if you're ready to turn your creative hustle into a thriving business. Let's get started.

Hello Allie. How are you friend? I cannot wait to dive into talking about all the things email.

[00:01:58] Allea: I am doing well, it's springtime in Nashville. Things are turning green. I got my coffee today. We're doing great.

[00:02:04] Bree: Oh my gosh. And anytime everybody knows that, listens to me, I geek out over email. It is like probably one of my favorite things to talk about.

So. Anytime I meet somebody new that like focuses on email, I'm like, oh yes please, let's do it. Yes. So you have so much knowledge in this and so much to share and I've built a whole company about it. So can you tell us like about Duet and what you do?

[00:02:31] Allea: Yeah, so I'm Ally Grommet. I'm an email marketing strategist, copywriter tech.

Wizard, if you will. I love it when it comes to email marketing. Um, it's like, do I call myself a wizard or a guru who knows, uh, an expert in the email tech side of things as well and my company. And like we do welcome and nurture sequences for our clients. So done for you services where we like write it all out for you to sound like you, to introduce you and all of your best content to your new subscribers.

And so. That way people get a familiarity with you, open your emails, click through to your website, and you have that great long-term relationship with them starting from the very beginning.

[00:03:10] Bree: Amazing. What got you into this and like why did you like Nope, I'm going a hundred percent in on email.

[00:03:17] Allea: I actually started as a personal finance blogger in 2016 and I joked that it was my like digital playground, which is actually not joking.

It really was like I was watching webinars on how to run webinars. I was like learning about SEO and content like keyword. Ranking and all that. I was just taking it all in like a fire hose while learning how to write my own content and all that about budgeting because I'm super fun at parties. Um, like let's, it was called Ask Allie because a friend literally stopped to ask me about her retirement.

I think we were in the cereal aisle in at Hy-Vee in Lincoln, Nebraska. Love it. And I'm like in my sweatpants, 'cause I'm like, in my mid twenties, of course it's eight o'clock at night. I'm shopping for cereal. Sure. Why not? We can have this conversation, but then yeah, like a year and some change later.

Listened to one too many podcasts about starting a business, and I was like, well, now I guess I gotta try like challenge. Challenge received, accepted. And I think I was a general, like a general marketing assistant or something online for like. Two months. And I was like, we need to, this is not working.

'cause when you do that, people are like, can you rewrite my website? Can you get me to show up on Google? Yes. Can you like get me on Facebook ads? And I was like, we need to niche down so fast. Um, there's no way I can learn all of these things and do them well. Right. And so. Email marketing was it for me. I had a friend who was running her own agency at the time and she was like, can you help me with this client with email marketing?

I know you've done it with your blog and I with my blog, I mean, I had a 70% open rate. I had people replying back to my welcome emails. Emails that I'd written a year and a half prior. And not only that, but they were replying back with like. Touching personal like details. They're like, I lost my job and I just moved into a flat with my boyfriend, like, what do I do?

And so I was like, if people feel like they know me from this. Text written like interaction email marketing can be so powerful. Like we are on opposite sides of the planet. Yeah. And yet you think that you, you know, you can, you can trust me and you're willing to reply. And so I just knew about the importance of that.

But also in the blogging space and the personal finance space. At the time, I just saw so many people not using email marketing and I was like, but what if everyone who joined your list. Got sent your best content and knew your philosophy on budgeting or knew your philosophy on debt payment payoff, and you have already have the blog post for it.

So it's sending traffic back. Like to me it just made sense. But one of the things that people really struggle with is actually doing the thing, like setting it up. And that's the part that I love doing. I, I named my company Duet. 'cause it sounds like duet, I realized. You know, pretty early on at my last job when I worked in video production, that I am not like the key ideator.

By that I mean, they asked me not to participate in creative sessions. Because I was probably like derailing them. They're like not creative enough. Ally, if you could just mm-hmm. Just, mm-hmm. Like, moms, we'll let, we'll tap you in when we need you. Which is what would happen. I mean, I would be at the start of the project really clarifying the goals of what needed to happen.

And then once the. Creative team had their treatment of how many cameras and angles and actors and all that. Then they'd say, okay, Allie, now we need your help. Like implementing it, putting things into action, get the permit, get the actors, all of this. And instead of taking that as like a massive criticism, I'm like, okay, great.

I know what my strengths are. I'm really good at clarifying. I'm really good at getting the thing done. And then for the in between with the creative. Honestly, like we do audience research for our clients, so it spells itself out, like

[00:06:50] Bree: mm-hmm.

[00:06:50] Allea: The, the research is the strategy. And so, yeah, I didn't really have any questions about the creativity piece of it or whether I was willing or, you know, capable of doing that.

I was like, it's, I don't know. And I've always liked writing. It took me a couple years into running my business before I even called myself a copywriter. I think I thought copywriters were like. Trained with a master's degree or like wanted to write a book someday. And I'm like, yes, work for the New York

[00:07:15] Bree: Times.

[00:07:15] Allea: Yeah. I was like, it's not been the dream. If the dream was to be Taylor Swift's personal assistant. So this is a close second.

[00:07:22] Bree: I know.

[00:07:23] Allea: And so I was like, I just wanna carry her cats around while she's on tour. But I realized like I'm a marketer who knows how to communicate. Like that's Yeah. And I don't write flowery content.

It's really like, it's clear, it's friendly without being over the top. Mm-hmm. And I realize that that's a, that's a lot of what people need. Yeah. They don't need it to be this like, you know, New York Times bestselling, like we're poetic or whatever's like we just, we have things we need to say that people are here, they need the support of this blog post or of this kind of resource.

So we just need to be able to clearly communicate how it's helpful for them and put it in their inbox. And I was like, I can do that.

[00:08:02] Bree: Why do you think people, so like you mentioned like your welcome emails, like getting that response, right? Why do you think people are Uh, you know, I feel like open rates, like if you, if you can nail it, it's pretty good and have like a pretty good system and strategy around it, you can get a really solid open rate.

You can get responses, you can get all these things versus. Social media when we're like, cool, like average right now has dropped to like 1%, maybe 3% if you're lucky of your audience. Seeing your stuff. Just seeing it, right? Not even like engaging, commenting, all of that. Why do you think it's different?

Email.

[00:08:40] Allea: Oh man. Well, so many things. Those, the high open rates that I mentioned with a welcome sequence, that is when people are the most excited to hear from you. Yes, you've just solved their problem with an opt-in or a promise. Like if you join my email list, you'll learn X, Y, or Z, or whatnot. And so that's when they're most excited.

And because they're automated, they're very timely. So as soon as they sign up, they turn around and they check their email. And there's a welcome from you. And this is also, this is your time when you get to say, Hey, if you're struggling with this. That's okay. I've struggled with it. Or I know people who do, and that's why I created this resource.

I'm so glad you're here. Mm-hmm. And you introduce yourself or whatnot. Um, but from the overall concept of how email performs so much differently than social media is that you get to land directly in their inbox. Right? The, the, how do I say this? The, the time and energy it takes to actually get their email address is higher than just getting a follow.

Yeah, on social. That's true. Mm-hmm. So there there's more. You have to, you have to really work for that investment from them. But then when they do put that email address in, they are saying, I'm invested. And they're more likely to open their emails. And so average open rates now, I looked up recently as like 40 to 42%, something like that.

And so that's more what you would expect from like a broadcast email. Or just sending out a newsletter. And yeah, there's so, there's something so powerful about how I can send an email, it will land in their inbox. Whereas like what you were mentioning with social media, I'm like, I'm posting it out into the ether, maybe got to the void, maybe strangers will see this.

I don't know, only 3% of my existing audience will see it. Like, how disheartening is that? And so I think it's just putting those, those platforms in the place where they belong. You know, in the priority of your mind and in your business. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So like, I'm not saying social media is bad, it's just like set your, set a reasonable expectation, try a different strategy for that, but don't let that be your whole business.

Right? Because if you have something to sell or you just have a new blog post that you want eyeballs on, yes. You wanna be able to hit send and it will land on their inbox.

[00:10:38] Bree: A hundred percent. Okay. I'm gonna keep coming up with like random questions for you as we're doing the, this entire conversation, but since we're talking about welcome sequences, I do wanna ask you really quick, do you customize each welcome sequence for each opt-in, or do you just have like what I, I'll share like what I've been doing because I'm like, hmm.

I need to make my life a little bit easier here with new opt-ins that I come up with. But like sending them like one custom new email that's just talking about that opt-in and then I drop them into my regular welcome sequence. Am I doing that right?

[00:11:09] Allea: I love that. Yes. Okay,

[00:11:10] Bree: great.

[00:11:10] Allea: So the idea of like the welcome sequence, my philosophy on it is that it's like a brand hub.

So no matter how anybody joins your list, whether it's, you know, if you're in Kit and you, they come from the Creator network or they come from Instagram or they come from the floor on your website. Yeah. Or a list swap to somebody else's, entirely different audience that they're getting this introduction to you, what you offer, confirming that they're in the right place, or if not mm-hmm.

They're like, can piece out. Yeah. And, and then you start sending them your newsletter content. So it's really like this is such a precious time to be able to Yeah. Give them. The like for them to give you this time and space and for you to make sure you're presenting yourself in a really clear way to them so they know what they're signing up for.

So I love that. If you're going to, yeah, deliver a freebie, it can be an individual email, but you definitely don't need a like a five email welcome sequence, right. For each one. And so talking on the technical side, so say whether you're like in flow desk or in kit or whatnot, like you just have one workflow.

That one workflow, that that's the welcome sequence, that's, that's sending the welcome sequence.

[00:12:10] Bree: Perfect. And

[00:12:10] Allea: so everyone else gets added to that. Mm-hmm. And think about it from a practical standpoint. If you need to go update a couple of emails, you don't wanna have to update it in six different workflows.

Oh, you just update it in the one, then it's done. Then it's done.

[00:12:24] Bree: Oh gosh. It's so true. Okay, great. I'm glad I'm doing it right then. Yes, you're doing great. Great. I'm glad I asked because I feel like, you know, that's something like if I, if you know, how do I get the opt-in to people and all of that, so I love that.

Okay. That leads me to the next question that I have, which is the one that I hear all the time and one that I feel like is stopping so many people from doing email is, what do I send? I have so many girls that have like started these email lists and then they never email their people because they dunno what to send.

[00:12:58] Allea: Oh man. Well that is a blank slate, isn't it? So it really depends on like if you're creating blog content. Send blog content, right? Mm-hmm. It's not fair to you to create and publish this, even if you only have a list of 35 people for really no one to find this article that you just worked so hard on, like do yourself a favor and send it out to those, those 35 people.

And then it's also not fair to your subscribers who have. Signed up to hear from you. To not hear from you. They've said they want it, right? You're not spamming people. And how you send out that blog post could differ. You could have a little personal story. Uh, I wouldn't put the whole blog post in the email.

You want to in, you know, build enough intrigue and interest that they actually click through to the page. And I think of it in that case, it's a matter of, um, where is the subscriber going to have the best experience? So, especially like I work with a lot of recipe bloggers putting the whole recipe in the email, I.

Is like, makes my eye twitch. Yes. Whereas like if you link them to the blog posts, then they have the recipe card, then they have the reviews, they see the five star reviews, all of that in one place. Whereas I will say, actually when I first got started, I didn't have a blog post. I didn't have any blogs on my website for like, I.

A year and a half into business. I started my email list a year into business, so there's a good six months there where I was just, just create something valuable and helpful. Put it in the email and hit send. Mm-hmm. You don't have to link to anywhere. You know, we get obsessed with like click rates and I'm like, is the email helpful?

Yes. Then don't worry about your click rate. Your click rate only matters if you're like. Trying to get traffic back to your website, and in my case, I just wanted to get in the practice of sending emails. I wanted to get in the practice of sharing something helpful. In fact, I linked to podcast episodes that I had nothing to do with other than like, this is a really good one about email marketing and I hope it reinforces why this is an important part of your business.

I.

[00:14:53] Bree: Well, it builds trust, right? Right. You're build, you're building trust, you're showing up, and then your brand is being remembered. Right? I talk about this all the time about how I'll like go to tell a friend about something that I saw on Instagram and I'm like, oh, this was a super cute outfit and I cannot remember the name of the creator because I follow so many of them.

Right? And so, but when you show up in my inbox. Even if you're not like having me go click through to something, you're building trust and you're like ingraining yourself into my brain of like, oh yeah, this is Allie. I know who this is. Love it. Wanna read this?

[00:15:26] Allea: Yes. One of the questions you can ask yourself is, how do I want people to think, do or feel when they're on my email list or what I want them to think, do or feel?

Mm-hmm. So part of it is like. Be, be inspirational, be encouraging, be helpful. Like if it's any of those things, and that doesn't have to be one all of the time, but like this email is going to be helpful. This email is going to be encouraging, like that's reason enough. You know to, because it's a way that you're supporting your subscribers.

It might not be, and because I have this course I'm launching, like not everyone has a course. I've been in business for six and a half years and I don't have a course. Right. So you and I would say like every six months or so, I give like a little personal update to my list. It has a little bit of a twist of like, and I'm really grateful for being able to run a business.

I'm so grateful you're here, but I'm like, I moved to Nashville. I thought that would be fun to share. Mm-hmm. Like you can share some personal things because it's also building that familiarity and like the human behind it,

[00:16:21] Bree: right.

[00:16:21] Allea: That they get to see a little bit into my life. Otherwise, ideas is for what to send out.

I love doing audience research, so surveying your list. You could also look at what blog traffic is getting the most to your site, but ultimately, like you are the managing editor, like what is most helpful for you to make sure that your audience knows about. They might not know about this certain recipe on your site, but it's your favorite.

You can darn well send it to them. You know, like you don't have to wait, just like for Google to tell you that. It's a great recipe. You already know and it's, it's up to you. You get to say. But I think a lot of it is what are people looking for when they come to the site and how do we like hand deliver that to them?

And in my case, with automated sequences, we can make sure everybody gets that. Right away.

[00:17:05] Bree: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:05] Allea: But then with your like newsletters or weekly emails, I have a lot of clients who send like three or four emails a week. So it could be, one of those is a new recipe. Another is a roundup of seasonal content.

Another is like five affiliate products that you recommend. Those can all be different emails. So one of the things that I recommend is kind of like. Creating different themes or like content buckets. So as you come up with ideas, it's a lot easier to kind of like drop them in there. Oh, this is a great personal update.

Or like, maybe it's a media feature, like, oh, I was on a podcast. I'll kind of add that to my podcast list of bucket ideas. And then when you go to sit down to write an email, you kind of have this like. I know what I'm gonna write. I have ideas and I know like, oh, I just did a podcast feature this one. I'm gonna do something helpful and it's gonna be linked to a blog post.

So that way you're not starting with nothing. You don't sit down going, what should I send? Mm-hmm. But you kind of get those ideas out over time, and that way when you sit down to write it, you feel a lot more confident because you're like, oh yeah, past me came up with this idea and I didn't have to sit, come up with an idea while I'm sitting down to write the email.

[00:18:12] Bree: Right. Okay. How much is too much to include in an email then? 'cause I like that. You know, what you were saying here is kind of like pick one pillar, pick one bucket, right? I've seen people come through with emails and it's like, oh, let me tell you a little story and then here's a new blog post and then here's five affiliate links and then here's this, and then here's what is too much.

Or is that not a thing?

[00:18:33] Allea: You know, I haven't looked at those, the stats of those types of emails. None of my clients really send out anything like that. And nor do I. And I will just say from an energy standpoint, boy that feels like a lot of work. As a creator. True. So I'm like, um, you know, I usually discourage like, 'cause a lot of times because that takes so much work, you're sending out fewer emails or maybe you're sending out one a month.

Mm-hmm. You're putting a lot of expectation on your audience to read that one email a month and you're putting so much weight on yourself to make it this like amazingly comprehensive newsletter. Mm-hmm. I personally would rather have you break that up. Here's a personal story is one email, here's some affiliate links, another email, and you're sending them out weekly.

You know, if, if it's already hard for you to be sending out regular emails. So I would say like, start with something simple and you can always build on. So you can always build on another, oh, you know, here's how I would normally send an email and I'm gonna do a little pitch for a paid product at the bottom.

[00:19:29] Bree: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:30] Allea: You know, by keeping it simple, you'll never really know until you know, you test it out with your audience. But I would say if it's keeping you from sending your content out. At all. It's too much work.

[00:19:41] Bree: Yes.

[00:19:42] Allea: And a lot of those people have teams. Okay. Like they've got people putting those emails together and so That's true.

[00:19:47] Bree: Yeah. Or it's taking you way too long and you need to spend your time elsewhere or break it up. So you're spending, you're showing up more consistently is what you're saying?

[00:19:54] Allea: Yes. Yep. And then like people are more likely to see two of those emails out of four versus expecting them to see one.

[00:20:01] Bree: Okay, so let's say somebody is really nailing it with email and they come into my coaching program and they are one of those people that are sending multiple emails a week for me as a coach, and so this is why I'm so glad we're talking about it to me, I have some red flags that start to go off and it feels a little bit like a lot to me.

But you're saying you have clients that do it, so tell me, you know, how often like do you want people to send. Like in an ideal world, your ideal client, how many emails are they sending a week, and how do you know that that's not burning their audience out?

[00:20:36] Allea: Yes, great question. Uh, and great scenario. I mean, I have a client who, like a year and a half ago was like sending seven emails a week.

Some of 'em are automated. I know the look on your face. I know like you guys can't see my eyes. Maybe we'll edit that part in. We'll be like, woo, big guys. Um, but you know, after a year of that, he's like, I'm noticing that people are unsubscribing a little bit more. Like there's, the audience has fatigue.

[00:21:02] Bree: Yeah.

[00:21:02] Allea: So. I mean, it was, it's good because he is also paying attention to his list and he's like, I'm gonna reduce it down to five emails. Um, I personally would say like. Three to four is probably good. Um, if you really Yeah. Yeah. Because one of them can be automated, another can be seasonal, another could just be brand new recipes.

Like those are all things that are like creating, those are supporting different purposes. Right? So,

[00:21:24] Bree: okay. If

[00:21:25] Allea: it's, if it's evergreen, you're sending con traffic back to old content. If it's seasonal, I mean, of course you're doing something timely and sending traffic back to blog posts that perhaps are older.

Um, but you're really meeting the need of your current. You know, what's happening in our day and age, uh, in the season. And then the other, if it's new recipes, like you wanna get eyeballs on that as soon as possible too. Um, and maybe another one's like an affiliate promo, you just kind of weave it in there.

I will say I'm always a big fan of allowing your subscribers to determine what they want and what they don't want. So you get to kind of decide, like they can't unsubscribe from all four emails. Like there's one that's just by default, you'll always get. Perhaps the seasonal email. That way they can say like, I have an evergreen sequence that goes out on Tuesdays that is like 81 emails long.

[00:22:11] Bree: Okay.

[00:22:11] Allea: Um, and then my brand new emails go out on Thursdays. And if it can be repurposed into being an evergreen nurture email, it goes into my nurture sequence. Literally just got a reply to an email, um, from a friend on my email list, and he said, he is like, look at you linking to a blog post from 2022.

And I was like, that was my Tuesday email. I wrote that email in November, 2022. And link to that blog post, and it's still great. It's still a blog post that I purposely go look up and send to people at least once a month. So I know it's still helpful, but I'm like,

[00:22:42] Bree: that's so true.

[00:22:43] Allea: So I'm like, great. I'm glad that landed in your inbox, because I just know as a creator, I've created this really helpful resource in the form of this blog post.

I know it's going out to everybody on my list at some point.

[00:22:53] Bree: You're giving me all the ideas now. Okay. Follow up question with that. Can I bring that back to data really quick? Yes. Because okay. Let's say you're bringing, you're, if I bump it up from one to two emails a week and then two to three or whatever, and I just kind of slowly increase.

At what point, like obviously like I have like around like a 45 ish percent open rate, right? Correct. I'm like very like we do not deviate from this open rate. So if I am seeing, okay, we are going up and let's say one of those has a lower open rate, right? Let's say, you know, it's not the evergreen sequence, but maybe it's the one about recipes or you know, whatever it may be.

I don't do recipes, but if I were, for the sake of argument, what if, if the, let's say, if the open rate gets to a certain percentage. When should you stop it or when should I look at? Like, you know what I mean? I'm, I'm trying to like, put data behind it and wanna just make sure like, okay, this is still worth it to send.

[00:23:54] Allea: Yeah. Well, let's even, let's, we'll come back to that, but one of the reasons why my clients were sending so many emails is because the number of clicks equal dollars. Yeah. Because his list is so big, right? Yeah. So you, in a way, he wanted his email to quote, unquote pay for itself, which I think email being such a long-term strategy, it does pay for itself.

But in his case, because of the list size and the click rate, he literally gets like, I send one more email, I make X number of dollars more. Wow. Yeah. Each week, right? And each month. So there's that data point based on your, you know, cost per thousand and your RPM and all that. So when it comes to like open rate dropping, I'd also look at like, if there's a lot of unsubscribes.

I would make that kind of, part of that number. Okay. Um, if you're seeing that number go up a lot, uh, I don't think you're gonna see a problem going from like one to two to three. It might be the four emails mm-hmm. That I think people might have a hassle with. Yeah. I also, I signed up for, I did a little hair quiz.

For a shampoo company. And when I tell you I got two emails a day, I was like, oh my gosh. Right? Like, that's different.

[00:25:02] Bree: Yes. Can't do it. That's different. Can't do it. You know, like that's, oh, that's something like, um, help a Reporter Out. I don't know if you heard, but they're coming back. They, they disappeared for a while.

They're coming back. But that was one, it was like, man, they would send out. Seven emails a day.

[00:25:18] Allea: Seven. Yes. And I'm like, I get it. You sell shampoo. I get it. You have my personalized quiz. I get it. So like in comparison to what other people are getting in their emails, like how many, I mean, do we get multiple target emails a day?

Like, there's no way. There's no way they're limiting themselves to one. There's no way That's true. I, I did unsubscribe. I was like, y'all, I know where you are. I will come find you when I need clothes to like, don't you just show up in my inbox telling me I need to buy clothes. I will decide this consumerism is real.

So part of, yeah, list health is the open rate. Part of that could also be cold subscribers. But yeah, if you see that number dipping, it could also just be really helpful to email your list saying like, Hey, as a reminder, you can always update your settings at the bottom of the email. Okay. Lemme know what you want, lemme know what you don't want.

And I, you can include that in your welcome sequence so that as people join, they kind of know what's coming. Um, and just let them know they can always update it.

[00:26:14] Bree: Hmm. Love that. Okay. I'm writing all the, you guys should see my notepad over here. All the notes over here. I'm like, questions, things to remember in the future.

Love it. Okay. The other question that I get a lot is, am I doing it right? So many will, you know, like only send blog posts and never fully, you know, evolve their strategy. What do you say to that or what do you kind of tell them to look at?

[00:26:37] Allea: Ooh. Well, it's a subjective question. Big question. Am I doing it right?

And I thi I think it's kind of in the tone of like, assuming that you're failing is kind of what you're saying when you, when you come, you know when people come to me saying, am I doing it right? You just assume that you're failing. And honestly, you're not. Like if quote unquote, all you're doing is sending out blog posts, like it's still really helpful.

And, but, but there also is an opportunity cost to not evolving your strategy because you don't know what else could be working. You know, maybe just sending blog posts is all you really need to do. I have a client, Jason, from Recipe Teacher, his emails with one recipe, a photo and a button, and a little blurb perform great.

You know, he doesn't need to do a whole lot more. But then I also know, like Tony from plant-based on a budget, her emails with like her personal updates on Fridays perform the best. Mm. And you wouldn't know that if you were just sending out blog posts. So there's definitely an opportunity there. And so I would say very, you know, try test out.

Different types of email layouts, types of content. But yeah, there's, there's really no like, quote unquote right or wrong way. I guess the wrong, you know, coming from you and I who love emails so much would be not doing email marketing at all

[00:27:45] Bree: a hundred percent.

[00:27:46] Allea: So that would be the wrong, um, so if you're, if you're not do sending any emails, I mean at a base level, I'm like.

I tell people all the time, set up a an RSS feed. So as you're busting your tail creating these new blog posts, they're at least going out to your list once a week as a digest.

[00:28:00] Bree: Yeah,

[00:28:01] Allea: that's true. You know, and so, and then from there you continue to grow.

[00:28:05] Bree: What is something that you wish every single content creator did or knew about email marketing?

Like if you like what your philosophy or something you could shout from the rooftops. I wish everybody would just do this. Oh my goodness. Brie, pick one. Only one. That's fine.

[00:28:26] Allea: I mean, I think, you know, I mentioned earlier I was like, it's not fair to your subscribers if you're not sending emails. And it's not fair to you as a creator.

Um, I know how much being a blogger can feel very, very insular. Like a very siloed experience.

[00:28:39] Bree: Yes.

[00:28:40] Allea: You're typing away like I used to sit in my old roommate's house basement. In like an unfinished bedroom, just plowing away, like writing about budgeting. Um, I kid you not sidebar, I would have to have a glass of red wine and some dark chocolate in order to hit send.

I was like, I mean, it's so vulnerable. Yeah. And, and that was, you know, when I was first getting started. It's a lot easier now, but yeah, like what you have to say matters and it will be helpful for the right people at the right time. And it's also really okay that not everyone jives with you. And that that shouldn't keep you from putting your, your voice and your content out into the world because it is right for the right people.

[00:29:17] Bree: Mm. I love it. Okay. Can we, before we kind of try to wrap up, 'cause you and I could talk forever, so Allie and I met at Tastemaker conference. Just a little backstory for you guys. We met there this past January and since then we've had. Probably like six different food bloggers join Shift. And one thing that I have heard repeatedly from them, and I'm like, is this a food blogger cult type of thing?

What are, I feel like I've never heard this before, and you kind of mentioned it as well, but like a forever sequence or an evergreen sequence. Yes. Mm-hmm. Can, can you tell me like a little, you, you kind of mentioned it a little bit, but tell me a little bit more about that and how anybody, regardless of their niche, could.

Why they should start one of these.

[00:30:04] Allea: Oh my goodness. Well, you could have just one general forever sequence that just shares like, that's what I have. I just have one sequence and you just add to

[00:30:13] Bree: it.

[00:30:13] Allea: And I just add to it. You can also set up a couple different ones. I know like I work with a client who has a lot of, she does school project type inspiration and tools.

So like one for STEM and another one for art. Right, because they're two different, yeah. Fields. And so yeah, the idea is like what is content that you already have that you know is super helpful, that as somebody who's joining your list, they definitely need to know about.

[00:30:35] Bree: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:36] Allea: And so I think about like my recipe bloggers, especially when we survey their audience and people are like, I love your Mediterranean recipes.

I'm like, girl, we need to put that in an automation. So everybody who's new knows about your amazing Mediterranean recipes. And so it serves your. Piece of mind as a creator that you know that when people are joining your list, they're already being sent your best content.

[00:30:57] Bree: Hmm.

[00:30:57] Allea: Another example is we did an audience research and some of the research came back going, oh, I didn't know you had a cookbook.

My client goes, yeah, we probably need to tell them I have a call. And it's like, yeah. So it serves that need as the creator, while also making sure that your new subscribers don't have to wait to be on your list for you to do a launch or for you to share that kitchen hack that everyone loves. But you shared it two years ago and you might not share it again 'cause you only shared it once.

It's like, what are these kitchen hacks? What are these substitutions? What are these stories that are gonna draw people into you in your personal, you know. Community. I love that. That you can automate. And so I, this is what we do for clients. We're like, we really get to craft that. What are 10 emails, you know, after the welcome sequence that they start getting weekly alongside your newsletters that will continue to support them and send them your most important content.

Mm-hmm. And then from there, I just add on, so when I was getting started, I was like, my nurture sequence was one, and then it became two, you know? And so as I sent out emails and what's so cool, especially as you're. Sending your emails, chances are you're also like, you're answering like low hanging fruit questions.

Mm-hmm. And I don't want you to dismiss that as like not being quote unquote important enough to automate and send to everyone. Mm-hmm. Because I have a blog post on how to use Otter to help just brainstorm your newsletter content. I kid you not, I wrote that fall of 2019, fall of 2024, I'm at a conference and someone goes, I feel like I just need to verbalize what I'm doing.

And I'm, before I read a newsletter, I was like actually like. Five years later, that content is still really helpful. Yes, and so, and let me tell you, I go back and look at those emails. I'm like, this is a trash email quote. You know, I'm teasing myself. I'm like, I've become a better writer.

[00:32:42] Bree: Yeah.

[00:32:42] Allea: My emails are much like longer or more fun now or whatever, and they're just whatever.

It's just a straightforward email. But I also have people tell me all the time free that they have a separate folder saved for my emails. Oh, I love that. Like that's how helpful they are. And so many of those I know are ones that I wrote long before they ever joined my email list. And so it's a way for us to be able to maximize the work that you've already done.

Like you already wrote the email, just drop it into an evergreen sequence. Mm-hmm. Um, and that's what I was mentioning earlier. I allow people to opt out of that sequence, right? I'm like, you just want my new content? Click here. But if you want the best of duet is what I call it, then they love

[00:33:17] Bree: it.

[00:33:17] Allea: Then they get my, just the emails.

So, and then I can pause that email at any time. So when I'm running a promotion or like, yeah, I'm doing a big webinar in a couple weeks with kit, like I can just pause those emails and send my little promos and then turn them back on when it's done. Oh,

[00:33:31] Bree: smart. And you know what? That's something that I talk about all the time, and I just made a new opt-in and have shared it with everybody, but I call it the Visibility Marketing game.

And the whole premise is that we create these pieces of content, whether it's a blog post, a YouTube video, oh, a reel, something that we spend hours of our time on, and then we share it one time and then maybe pop it over on Pinterest, but then that's it. And so this, I love this concept because it's that same type of idea of like, okay, you're gonna go make four pins depending on Pinterest, also drop it into your evergreen sequence.

[00:34:05] Allea: Yep. Absolutely. Just, and that's just more easy

[00:34:08] Bree: step.

[00:34:09] Allea: Well, and that's a, that's like a marketing stat for the ages, right? It's like, it's the 2080. Like spend 20 per percent of your time creating the thing and 80% of your time mm-hmm. Promoting it.

[00:34:19] Bree: Yep.

[00:34:20] Allea: I mean, we were talking about this before we hopped on the call of like, so many of my clients or people come to me saying, I need a new opt-in, or I need a new lead, lead magnet.

And I'm like, well the reason why yours aren't working is 'cause no one's seeing them. It's probably a really great opt-in. Not exactly they're, it's not that they're not good. Yeah. It's just we need more eyeballs on it and that means talking about it.

[00:34:39] Bree: I love it a hundred percent. Oh my gosh. Okay. You have an opt-in that we can send everybody to for them to go and you have an amazing opt-in.

Yes. Tell me about, tell, tell me about this. It's my, I'm gonna go get it right now.

[00:34:52] Allea: It's my Airtable content bank and content calendar. Love it. So you get to copy the same one that I've used for like five years. I just recently like sh it up because now I have a podcast and all these other things that need to be organized too.

But it's my Airtable content calendar that you can copy and really figure out like what are my buckets? Where do I store my content ideas? And then how do I plot that out week by week? Of what content actually needs to be sent out in an email, and it's gonna make it so much easier to sit down and write an email and to stay a little bit on top of it.

I only plan my emails out like six weeks in advance, and I'm only sending one email a week, right? Mm-hmm. So it doesn't even have to be that far versus feeling like I have to know what I'm sending out for the whole next six months. Like you do not. But this allows you a place to store those ideas, organize them, and then make it easier to sit down and write and send your email.

So you can do, yeah, you can get that at duet.co/thrive. So it's DUET t.co/thrive.

[00:35:45] Bree: Yay. Perfect. And then what is the name of your podcast? Since they're already on a podcast player right now, you guys just hop over and subscribe to that one too. It's called Happy Subscribers.

[00:35:54] Allea: Cute. So cute. I know. It's so fun.

I went back and forth on the name, but that one just makes me light up every time I say it. So yeah, happy subscribers where I do lots of interviews with other creators. My goal is for you to be able to learn about how other creators are using email marketing and implement what feels good or, or just be encouraged by what's possible.

[00:36:13] Bree: I love it. Oh my gosh, Allie, you're amazing. Thank you so much for sharing so much like. And you talk like a Gilmore Girl like me, and I'm obsessed with it because then we can share so much freaking content so quickly. I love it. Do you see I have Stars Hollow right behind me. Stop it right now. Yeah. Big Gilmore Girls fan.

Yep. Yep. We just became best friends. I almost pulled out my Gilmore Girls mug today and I should have now. I feel like there was a reason it was pulling to me.

[00:36:37] Allea: Mm-hmm. Next time. Next time we'll come in our full Gilmar girl garb. Yeah. And

[00:36:42] Bree: copy one. I love it. I love it so much. Thank you so much for being here.

You guys go click over to Happy Subscribers next. Go listen to some of her episodes, download the freebie and ah, amazing. You're amazing.

[00:36:57] Allea: Aw, thank you, free. I appreciate you having me on the show. Of

[00:36:59] Bree: course.

[00:37:00] Allea: We'll

[00:37:00] Bree: see you

[00:37:00] Allea: guys back

[00:37:01] Bree: here real soon for a new episode. If this episode helped you, help us grow, leave a review, share it with a friend, and tag us on social media.

We can't wait to cheer you on.