320: Unlocking Lucrative Brand Deals—No Matter Your Audience Size!

[00:00:00] Bree: If working with brands is something you want to do more of or want to start doing, then you absolutely must listen to this episode and I'm just going to go ahead and say it's probably going to be one you need to listen to a few times a year. My friend Danielle joins us on this episode and shares so much goodness on how to take your brand partnerships to the next level and also how you can start securing brand deals without having a large audience.

audience. I don't know about you, but I've always had it in my head of like, Oh, I have to have this many followers or this many blah, blah, blah, before I can have success with brands. Or when you're in the thick of it, working with brands being like, okay, this is my set way that I can work with them. And so much of that are.

limiting beliefs that we have put on ourselves. And Danielle really just in her beautiful way, just like breaks all of those barriers down. And I feel so empowered after listening and having this conversation with her that I am just really, really excited. So let's dive in. Welcome to the Thrive Podcast, where we believe creators deserve more, more money, more Freedom and even more love for what they do.

I'm Bri Payer, your coach for content creators. And I know the struggle, the long hours, the endless ideas, the feeling that success is just out of reach, but here's the truth. You've got what it takes. And this podcast. It's your shortcut to getting there. From strategies that actually work to behind the scenes insights, we're unlocking your potential one episode at a time.

So if you're ready to turn your creative hustle into a thriving business, let's get started.

Danielle, welcome to the show. How are you doing?

[00:01:58] Danielle: Hi Bree. You know, this is a dream come true for me, right? As you're one of your avid fans and listeners, like for years, we should tell the story of how we met and like what I was gonna say,

[00:02:09] Bree: because, okay, so Danielle and I met at a retreat, a podcasting retreat this past June that, um, my podcast producer and one of my business besties, Haley puts on.

And so we met there and we're at the welcome happy hour, right? And we're sitting across from each other and we're talking and all of a sudden she looks at me and she's like, I recognize your voice. And I'm like, well, that's weird. Okay. And I'm like, well, not creepy, right? I don't know where, where did you hear me?

And you're like, wait, what's your podcast? And I tell her and she's like, Oh, listen to your show.

[00:02:51] Danielle: That's for a while. for a long time, for years, many, many, many years. You're actually one of the first blogging podcasts that I listened to. Oh my gosh. And you know, I think that's the power of audio, right?

Having you in my earbuds every week, talking to us and teaching us and mentoring us. And, and it's so powerful that I could, I recognize you no matter where you are, I could recognize who you are. So more, more power to podcasters because it's a very powerful medium for sure.

[00:03:23] Bree: Oh my gosh. It was so cool. It was like we were connecting and having a great conversation and then all of a sudden you're like, hold on a second.

There's like a puzzle piece that is missing here. Absolutely. Absolutely. For sure. I love it. Well, tell everybody who you are and what you do and also where they can follow you while they're listening. Absolutely. So hello everyone. I'm Danielle

[00:03:44] Danielle: Desir Corbett. I am a travel podcaster. and also a podcast marketing coach.

So I've been running the Thought Card Podcast for six years now since 2018. And we focus all about affordable luxury travel and personal finance. So there's always a money angle to anything we talk about. So travel hacking, budgeting for travel, all the things. It's one of my favorite mediums. But before that I was blogging.

So I have this like dual brand where I I am a podcaster, but I also blog as well. So that's really powerful. You could check me out over at thoughtcard. com where I have my blog and podcast and uh, those are great places to connect with me. I have a lot of other projects, but I think that's the main one for today.

Oh my

[00:04:34] Bree: God, girl. Okay. So I know a lot about you, but then I read your about page today and I was just like, holy crap. I've been busy. So much. And you even say that on your thing, you're like, yeah, I've been busy. It's been a lot. It's been a lot. Yes. It is so impressive. Everything that you have done and are still doing.

So you guys go check that out for sure, because there are so many different things to learn from you. Even if you're not wanting to start a podcast, like the travel stuff and the budgeting side of it. I absolutely love that content. It's fantastic. And you were just telling me, um, before we hit record about your nine day Disney trip that you're doing and all your spreadsheets.

I can only imagine. Of course. Of course. I love it. Well, so I am really excited to have you on today because I want to talk to you about working with brands because You are somebody so you were speaking at Haley's retreat this past June and talked about this and then you and I had a side conversation about it and helped me so, so much with just how I'm approaching brands and have changed.

Even with how I'm coaching people now, like I'm teaching them, like, this is what Danielle taught me. And so now I'm teaching them. And so I'm just really excited to have you come on the show. And I, just to like start the conversation, I would love to know what your current strategy looks like for building relationship with brands.

Like, are you, I hear about, I'm not on LinkedIn, but I feel like I need to be like, are you one of those LinkedIn girlies? Like what is, what is your strategy?

[00:06:18] Danielle: Yes. So, I want to take a step back first and say that relationship building is so essential to securing brand deals, especially if you are a smaller creator, which I definitely am a smaller creator.

I don't have huge audiences and it's proof that you don't necessarily need to have a huge audience. What you need to have on your side is an engaged audience that are interested in what you're talking about and who will do what you ask of them. So click on a link, leave me a review, buy this thing.

Right. Right. So I think for me, it took me a really long time to get to the point where I'm successfully bringing in 40 percent of my income through brand deals. And the biggest hurdle for me was this relationship piece. I saw it more as a transaction and because it was transactional, that definitely left gaping holes in my strategy.

So I think just understanding how important relationships are is pivotal and key. With that being said, I really prioritize in person interactions as the first way to approach them if possible. So that looks like going to conferences, going to meetups, going to events where brands are going to be at an Potentially having a 15 minute call with them.

So I'm in the travel space and there's actually a lot of entities and organizations that provide this kind of space where we able to meet and do like a full day of meeting with brands. That's super helpful. But even if you're not able to do that, go to conferences, go to those expo halls, go to those trade shows, and.

Meet people and get their cards and take that opportunity to follow up. So after I meet with them, that's when my pitching skills need to be fine tuned and ready to go. And pitching for me is all about showcasing my value, but also sharing with them ideas. So that actually takes quite a bit of time for me to come up with a crafted idea.

Cause we're, again, we're securing clients here. So how would you approach a potential client? That's how we think about it. And then lastly, having a really strong follow up game. So a lot of times it takes me maybe a year or two to actually secure them as a client. So that follow up period is really important to make sure from beginning to end I'm keeping in touch and not leaving anything on the table.

So just to kind of break it down again, it's meeting in person if possible. Following up with a story angle, a story idea, and then having my systems in place for follow up so that I can continuously nurture that relationship and get them on the books for partnerships.

[00:09:05] Bree: You said a couple of things there that I'm like, this is so crucial.

You have a smaller audience and you're still able to provide such a huge value to brands because you have an engaged audience and that's huge, right? Because anybody going into any type of content creator space, we don't start out with a huge following a huge. Fan base, if you want to call it that, it, it takes a while, but also we still have bills to pay and we still have to earn money.

So knowing that you can do that without having tens of thousands of followers, I think is such a, I don't know, almost like. What am I trying to say? Like a perceived notion going into this field, right? Is that you have to do that before you can have success. And I think you and I are both proof that that is not the case at all.

And then the second thing that you said was that sometimes takes a year or two years. to solidify that client and that brand deal. And again, that's something else that we want to have happen instantaneously. And we feel rejected if it doesn't, but the fact that it can be a long game is so important to just know going into this.

Or if you've been in it for a long time and you're feeling rejected, like go back to those ones that you've talked with in the past. And I really

[00:10:37] Danielle: feel like if you take every rejection personally to heart, that can hinder you from really fine tuning your skills to get consistent brand deals, because rejection is your best friend, actually, like she's on your shoulder.

She's right there with you, right? But so is getting a yes and getting a win. So, You know, when I secure a brand deal, you don't see the countless rejections that happened in the background, right? All you see as a listener is, wow, she worked with X, Y, Z destination. Amazing. Right. But I've learned, and I feel like I'm definitely an emotional person, more so postpartum, and it's something that I've had to really master and learn.

It's like when you get rejected, it may not even be about you and your content. There's so many reasons why your brand. May not want to invest in marketing with you right now, and if you let that keep you back, you're going to not make progress. So just expect rejections and appreciate the yeses that are so sweet when they do say yes.

[00:11:45] Bree: Absolutely. Take the time to celebrate them. And not just be like me and be like, cool, next,

[00:11:55] Danielle: we all, we all, it's, it's, there's so much mental that goes on when it comes to securing brand deals. So I'm really like, really happy to talk about all this because I had to learn this the hard way through years and years of going through all of this. Uh, but it's very rewarding when you do have a client that says yes.

[00:12:15] Bree: You mean you didn't just automatically know how to do all of this one day you woke up and

[00:12:21] Danielle: it was just there, right? Well,

[00:12:25] Bree: okay, you know, I would love for you to speak to, you know, talking to those content creators who have an audience, um, but who may have a smaller audience, whether that's blog, YouTube, social, what's your advice for leveraging what you do have in order to build a partnership?

with a brand now versus waiting until, Oh, I can't pitch, or I can't work at the brand until I have X amount of followers. I think a lot of people like, even I, I was like, Oh, I need to have this many podcast downloads before I can start reaching out to brands, right? We put this number in our head of, I have to hit this before I can, but there's, and you have helped me realize too, there's so much that you can leverage.

[00:13:06] Danielle: Absolutely. And I kind of feel like there's. the negative talk in the industry that like we've learned this from somewhere, right? There's a reason why we feel like there's a number that we need to hit in order to be successful. And I feel like when you take that away and you focus on with your platforms, creating valuable, helpful content, engaging with your audience, axing them to take action and do things free things and pay things as well.

Yep. You're building this currency really that the brands really value that they actually don't have and need help to tap into. So for example, like I knew you Bri from listening to you for years. So when you mentioned a resource, I am more likely to go ahead and click on them and check them out versus if I just saw this ad on Instagram or something like that.

So we have this intimacy and we have like years of. Building relationships that these are the things that we need to tap into when we are approaching brands as a smaller creator. I also think that we have also multiple assets and touch points of how we interact with our audiences. So for me, I have the blog, I have the podcast, I have.

Each social channel, I have a newsletter, everything I create for my podcast can potentially be an asset that I share as a deliverable with a brand. So when I'm approaching a brand, I'm not approaching the brand as Danielle, the podcaster approaching Danielle, uh, the thought card as this like media company.

And based off of what we're looking to do together, I will pick and choose the right assets to put this campaign forward. So everything is on the table versus just seeing myself as only one piece of the pie, uh, that has been super duper helpful. So some campaigns, when I'm working with a brand, I say, I'm going to do a newsletter.

Other campaigns, I'm going to do a full dedicated podcast episode. Other campaigns, it's just a 30 second ad read on the show. Or other campaigns, it could be a blog post, right? So there's so many pieces of our content creation that could be of value, and we have to really look at it comprehensively than just one lane.

I think that is the benefit of a small creator. Oh,

[00:15:32] Bree: absolutely. I think that starts with like, just that realization and that self awareness. And maybe it's even like talking yourself up a little bit of like, no, I'm not just a another Instagrammer, right? I'm not just somebody with a following on Instagram, and I can make cute content there.

Like, no, like consider yourself like this CEO of, A agency or a company and it's like, you know, you do video content, you do photography, you do emails and newsletters if you have a blog, like there's so much more than just like this one singular thing that you're like, Oh, okay, well, again, it's like that perceived like, Okay, I have to have this many followers or it's like, Oh, okay, well, brands only want this one thing.

They only want reels, right? Like that's all they want right now. And I think a lot of times we can kind of, that's what we push or that's what we put out there, but there's so many more pieces.

[00:16:35] Danielle: Totally a lot more pieces. And I also think that to me, I think the, the skill that I've learned and mastered really right now is as a podcaster is storytelling, uh, that has been critical to how I approach.

Brands and destinations and my potential collaborators, because everyone could talk about features, like, you know, this thing has 10 widgets and this thing has 10 amazing things right from this product or service. But when you can tap into storytelling, that brings the product or service to life in a brand new way in a fresh way.

And brands love that. So that's something that I've, I've over the last year, I've really tried to in my reaching out to brands. What's the story that I want to share? But also in the content that I create, what's the story that I want to share for both pieces as well.

[00:17:33] Bree: And that kind of leads me to, you know, I wanted to ask you about when it comes to pitching brands and so many creators pitching, what are your top tips for standing out in a crowded space?

Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:49] Danielle: So. I would say that story angle is so critical and so key before I even reach out to a brand there is A note book papers. There's like notes app. There's like a google talk of like Just points Of observations, meaning that I actually do research to figure out, okay, what's the brand? What's the feel?

What are they prioritizing? What ads have they run in the past? What ideas come up for me? And a lot of times it's twofold. What are they doing well? That I'm like, awesome, keep going. I could further that or sometimes it could be, what are they lacking in? So if they're lacking in something and I show up in the pitch that can help them fill the gap and assess the need that they have.

So there is quite a bit of research that goes into coming up with a story, meaning how will we work together? More than the deliverables, but literally like what is the essence of this campaign of this project that we're going to work on together and how is that going to translate to my listener base and my audience base as well.

So it's two sides because at the end of the day. We are this middle person where we have three clients. We have ourselves, of course, we got to get paid. We're not doing this for free. Um, but also we have our audience, which is an important client of ours that we are serving. And we have a brand as well, who is another client that we are serving.

So whenever we're approaching anything, when it comes to these partnerships, always trying to find that balance where the stories we pitch. are great for the brand, but also great for the listener. And I think once I've mastered that piece, my listeners love my sponsor content because it is so valuable.

It is so seamless that it doesn't feel like a random ad. It is actually enriching to them and it positions the brand in the best light. So those are some of the things that I think are, critical and key. And it takes time to get here. Like it took so long for me to figure out a way and how do I, how do I make this all work for all of us?

Uh, but once you figure that out, now it's rinse and repeat. Cause I could just, you know, copy and paste that mentality and strategy to any campaign that I'm working on in the future.

[00:20:15] Bree: How did you practice to get into that mentality? Because I do think it is, it's, it's all a mental. game, right? And it's how you are thinking about things differently rather than just like, all right, I've got this list of 50 brands that I need to pitch this month, right?

And let me just go through it and crank things out. Um, Oh, because I, I still do think like a lot of it is numbers games. You're going to get nos, you're going to get yeses. You're going to figure out what lands and what doesn't, but how do you, how have you taught yourself really? Because it is like self taught.

I know you learned from other people, but like, how have you gotten your mindset into that position and like, what advice do you have for others who are just like, maybe going through the, we're just pitching, we're just pitching, we're just pitching mentality to, Yes, you're still pitching. However,

[00:21:09] Danielle: you know what?

I think the biggest moment for me was when I started to see three clients in this situation. Like I mentioned, like once I actually called the brand a client, That changed everything. It changes my attention to detail. It changes how I approach them. It changes how I correspond with them, how active I am in my inbox.

They are clients. They are true clients. And when they pay you for sponsorships, it's really them investing in their marketing. Like that's what they're doing when they pay you for sponsorship. That's a marketing Budget that they have and they're carving it out and saying, okay I'm going to invest in the thought card as a way to get the word out get sales get whatever right?

So once I figured out okay, they're a client and my client has needs. How do I? serve that client and serve their needs through what I'm working on to what I'm doing. That changed everything for me. So I don't know if you've noticed, but I have said client quite a few times in this conversation. It's because that is how I think of, of brands.

They're my clients and I want to Make them happy. I want them to come back next year. I want them to talk about how Danielle was Incredible. She made podcasting so easy and maybe I'll never find a podcaster like her like that's what I want my clients to say to me and That I think is is really what guides my that's my North Star of how I approach it but again, like I said my Listeners are also my clients.

Like I don't want them to feel alienated. I don't want, I want them to feel like this is so such good, great content. I love this. And it just so happens to be sponsored by XYZ person, you know, XYZ company. Right. So it makes them look good, right? It makes the brand look good when I do a good job at the end.

So client focus, I think really is. It's that, it's that mental that keeps me focused.

[00:23:18] Bree: Well, and that's what so many people ask too, is like, how do I create those long term partnerships? Those long term deals, right? Because that works out better for, I think, all three parties. It works out better for you.

You're not having to go hunt down more clients. Works out better for them and for your audience, right? It's we, you know, there is statistics that prove that it works better over time and converts better the more often that your audience does. able to see something. And so by treating it this way, and building that relationship with the brand with the client.

I'm going to start changing my language now. Um, it's building that relationship, which will then be long term for when they have another need, you're the one that they think of rather than just like a quick transaction. Overwhelmed with your content biz. Tired of doing everything yourself and still not seeing consistent income friend.

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[00:24:50] Danielle: think how you turn a short term deal into a long term, there are a couple of things, practical things that you can do. So something that I always strive to do is after our project, our campaign is done, share with them the stats, share with them what actually happened, right?

And That looks like numbers that can look like screenshots of your audience just so engaged that could look like clicks, like track everything in your campaign and whether things happened well or things happen not so well, share it with them and share with them potential ideas for the future. That's what I wanted to ask you is I'm like,

[00:25:35] Bree: okay, what about when it doesn't go well?

[00:25:37] Danielle: Yes. What do you

[00:25:38] Bree: do

[00:25:38] Danielle: when it doesn't go well? Well, I think it's important to. share what you think could have done better. So for example, I'm working with a brand actually as an affiliate right now, but that's also another strategy, like an affiliate to bread deal. Right. And I realized when I went on their page, you know, I'm pretty much handing off my listeners to their page.

The page to font is super small. They have a video of another creator. That's not me. There was a lot of things going on in that page. I'm like, if we improve this, we'll see better conversions. So I just reached out to them and I said, Hey, you know, I love y'all. And I'm going to start doing this marketing push as an affiliate for you.

And here are the four things I think that we can do to improve so that the conversions could be higher. That is taking the initiative. That is also a win win for them because now they're not having to think about what they can do to improve, but I just gave them some ideas, right? So that could be one way, but also if something didn't happen, well, like I have, um, a campaign that it did okay, but we only did two ads, two 32nd ads.

And I knew in the back of my mind that we need to have more touch points so I can say, Hey brands, like. This was a great, uh, beginning campaign. But starting, right? A good starter. We have. But, you know, and we're getting bites. Like people are actually interested. We can see the movement engagement. We just need more of this.

And here are some ideas of how we can do that. So don't be afraid to use that creative mind of yours to share ideas with them. And. It's not always it's not a bad thing. If it didn't go well, there's learning lessons for both parties Um, so I think that's that's how I would approach it I think also another thing I think is important is that i'm not a saleswoman I'm, not a salesperson for your brand right like Uh, it's, there's only so much that I can do, but when I hand it off to you, that's, you know, there's so much that happens behind the scenes as to how my audience will interact.

So I always try to take the pressure off of it having to perform. And that's, I think where podcasting is really great at. Podcasting is great for Putting it on your radar, like putting something on your radar for you to be introduced to it, for you to learn more. And there's other different types of content that could be more nurturing, for example.

So I just try not to put so much emphasis on the conversions because for me, I think podcasting is really good at like putting this on your radar and now you could, you know, to check it out in the future. Think awareness campaigns do really well for podcasting.

[00:28:30] Bree: Yeah, and that's something that I have noticed come up.

so much when I am coaching specifically our shift girls and we're talking about brands and talking about when they're having conversations with them and you know, kind of coaching them through how to do a call and how to have that conversation and how to dig in to see what they really need and asking them what they need.

Are you needing awareness, right? Are you needing views? Are you needing people just to know about you? Then awesome, an Instagram reel might be perfect for that type of thing. Are you needing clicks? Are you needing, you know, then, okay, maybe we need to do a mini chat automation with. Like a couple of reels, or maybe we need to send out an email because I gave a click through rate of this, right?

So there's different variables, but it doesn't happen until we ask them, Hey, what is your hope from this campaign with us working together? Because that does tailor, you know, how your content performs, you know, if people are just going to view it, if they're going to comment, if they're going to click over, right?

And so that does a better service for you. By relieving pressure, right? Because if you're, they're like, Oh yeah, we want clicks, but they just want a one off reel, that's not going to get them clicks, right? And then they're, everybody's going to feel like the campaign failed. And so having that clarifying piece ahead of time.

I think not only does that make sure that that campaign will be more successful for all three parties, but then also make it be successful for all three parties.

[00:30:09] Danielle: I, you know, you really hit it right there. You hit it right there. Having conversations with the brand over a Zoom call, over coffee, over, you know, All of these are so important because you'll get to hear and learn more of what they're looking for.

Those little minute details come out in a very casual conversation. And I think that's another thing that helps me stand out and stand apart is I take the time to hop on the call to chat with them. And I use this as a fact finding mission. Like how can I best put a proposal together that Makes what you're looking for shine through this campaign, right?

Mm-hmm . So everything you said there, Brie, is so important. So important, right? You can't know if a campaign was successful if you don't have those goal setting benchmarks, metrics, right for you in the beginning.

[00:31:06] Bree: Well, and it's all of those little pieces too that are making you stand out from every other person.

Right? Because most people are not doing this. It's a lot of extra work with what you're doing. But if we're asking, how do I stand out from the crowd? How do I stand out from all of the hundreds of other pitches that they're getting? This is how

[00:31:29] Danielle: absolutely. And you know why that's why going back to circling back to what I said in the beginning.

I love going to events because yeah, if they see me speaking on stage, if they see me again meeting with them for like a quick chat, it's going to be like, Oh, yes, Danielle. probably need to respond to her, right? Like it's that gentle reminder and that gentle push that sometimes, you know, our emails get lost.

Sometimes spam, like literally I have brands are like, Oh my gosh, thank God I checked my spam filter because I found this email. I'm like, come on, please don't do this to me. Right. Um, but all these things will help you to stand apart and taking the time and effort. will have the result that you're looking for.

Again, even if you have a smaller audience, even if you're like, is my numbers good enough? Your numbers are fine. You're doing great.

[00:32:21] Bree: Yeah. Add

[00:32:22] Danielle: these personal touches to your strategy. It will make a big difference and you'll see your income rise as a result of that as well.

[00:32:30] Bree: Oh my gosh, that was a mic drop moment and just instilled so much more confidence back in me again.

Yes. Now you guys see why I just love her. Oh my gosh. Okay. I want to ask you one more question to wrap this up because I'm like, Oh my God, we've already been talking, talking for a half an hour. I could talk to you all day, but okay, I have to ask you one more question. It's going to be, what is one thing?

That every pitched email should include and what's something you should never say in a pitch.

[00:33:02] Danielle: Okay. So one thing that your pitch should include is your story angles. Again, more than features, more than deliverables of what you're going to provide or give them. It's the essence of how you're going to help them, support them, and what's that going to look like for your listeners.

So that story. I think is so critical and so important. Another thing I think that's important is a hook also like don't, for me, I think a don't is don't start your emails with, hi, my name is Danielle Dazir Corbett, and I am a host of the ThoughtCurve podcast. I don't do that. I actually start with a hook.

[00:33:43] Bree: I'm not me jumping off camera. I'm being

[00:33:45] Danielle: like, oh, okay. Oh, you know why? Because everyone does that. Everyone says like, hi, I'm so and so. I'm doing

[00:33:53] Bree: it.

[00:33:54] Danielle: You know, it's, but instead I start with how am I going to help and support you that hook, right? Like, what are we here to do? That to me is such, it's much more powerful because when they don't really know who you are, when you show up with a basket of cookies, it doesn't matter who you are.

It's like, you have cookies for me. Right. And they're so warm and they're so delicious. And I am like, just, you know, Loving this delicious cookies. Oh, hi, Daniel. Okay, great. Cool. So I think that to me is a don't like I just start with a hook, something interesting, something exciting, something. Can you give me like an example of that?

Like, what does that kind of look like? Yeah. So for example, one of the campaigns I pitched, what I noticed that again, I remember I had said in the beginning, You could go ahead and like keep on doing what they're doing or notice a gap. So one of the brands I noticed that their destination and they had nothing pertaining to kids like babies And i'm like, I want to help you create content for the parents with infants who are coming to your destination.

So my hook look like, Hey, what if your readers would come here, you know, come on your page and they were listening to an episode all about how to experience this destination from the perspective of a family with a young child. And that was the hook. That was, I noticed the gap. That's how I want to feed.

That's how I want to feed the gap, close the gap. And from there, I'm like, Hey, I'm Danielle Dazier. I have a podcast. I have a seven month old baby. We love to adventure. Uh, there are a couple of things that we look for in every destination. Would love to chat about what that looks like for you all. Right.

So. Give them those warm, soft cookies in the beginning and then follow up with more details about you and how you can fulfill that mission. So I think that is a good place to start. Um, if you're a podcaster, right? And you receive a lot of pitches also from guests who want to be on your show. Take another look at those pitches and see the ones that you say yes to, what did they have?

They had something purposeful, service based, it had something valuable that you said yes to. So you could look at other things and kind of take glean insights from those and put them in your pitches, but always leave with value. I think if you leave with value, you're definitely going to get a hit. Last thing I want to say here when it comes to pitching, the success of pitch is a response.

It's not a closed deal. We are jumping loops ahead when we're looking at success Metric as a brand deal if you're getting like me if you get your average brand deal turnaround time is one to two years You need to have Milestones and happy moments in, in between that. Right? So for me, the goal of a pitch is to get a response.

If I can get a response, we are making money. It doesn't matter if it's a yes, no, maybe it means that they read it. They took the time to respond to me. We are in the game. So I think that's something else to think through is like, let's just get this pitch read and responded to, and then we could take it to the next level, the next step.

Like, yeah, there's levels and steps to this. And I think definitely with starting with the hook will definitely help you to stand out a little bit more.

[00:37:29] Bree: Oh my gosh, this has just been a gold mine. You are brilliant. It is no wonder that you are seeing success just with so many just like little mindset shifts.

On how you're approaching things and how you're looking at things. Are anybody that listens to this and takes it to heart and really plugs it in is going to see huge, huge difference with working with brands. And I'm hoping that there are so many that are listening that are, have felt like, Oh, I don't have enough of a following that are going to be like, you know what?

Let me shoot my shot. Let me see what I can do because you absolutely can. Absolutely. My

[00:38:07] Danielle: mom always says like, close mouths don't get fed. So for 2025 and beyond, go to that conference, send that pitch email, and then look for that next, next step of success, which is a response or, you know, they said yes to a meeting, whatever that is, like all those little steps will lead to success.

And it leads to a strategy that's like humanistic approach. I too, too, I think like I'm very like human focus at connection focus versus transaction. And I think everything I'm thinking through will help. will help you to also develop that as well. A

[00:38:42] Bree: hundred percent. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Okay. Well, we will link everywhere you guys can go and find Danielle, listen to her podcast, keep learning from her in the show notes.

And. Thank you so much for taking time out of your super busy schedule to have this conversation with me.

[00:39:02] Danielle: Thank you, Brie. Like I mentioned, dream come true, long time listener, and I'm really honored to be here. So really appreciate you, uh, everything that you do for all of us.

[00:39:12] Bree: Aw, right back at you, friend.

All right, you guys, we'll see you back here in a few days with a new episode.

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